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La Tunisie, l'Égypte, on parle de la Jordanie, du Yémen et de l'Arabie Saoudite

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Les gars, avec vos ostinations vous êtes tellement pas lus. On regarde l'avatar, la première phrase, pis on comprend que le thread est terminé depuis longtemps, et que le reste est juste des redits de marde.

Le saviez-vous? :mellow:

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B-E m'a demandé des preuves

J'tai donné un point de rep avec "Sérieusement?" comme commentaire. Ça dénotait de l'étonnement, pas du scepticisme ou de l'incrédulité.

Les gars, avec vos ostinations vous êtes tellement pas lus. On regarde l'avatar, la première phrase, pis on comprend que le thread est terminé depuis longtemps, et que le reste est juste des redits de marde.

Le saviez-vous?

J'aurais plus de sympathie pour ce genre de commentaire s'il y avait vraiment une discussion dynamique sur les évènements en Égypte. Pour faire dévier une discussion, il faut une direction de départ, chose qu'on à peine ici. Ceux qui chialent en n'ayant rien à contribuer ne font que laisser le champ libre aux autres pour discuter de ce qu'ils veulent.

Mais bon, peut importe, le sujet est nettoyé.

===

Pour le contenue;

Un article intéressant par Robert Fisk. Un passage intéressant;

In his novel The Autumn of the Patriarch, Gabriel Garcia Marquez outlines the behaviour of a dictator under threat and his psychology of total denial. In his glory days, the autocrat believes he is a national hero. Faced with rebellion, he blames "foreign hands" and "hidden agendas" for this inexplicable revolt against his benevolent but absolute rule. Those fomenting the insurrection are "used and manipulated by foreign powers who hate our country". Then – and here I use a precis of Marquez by the great Egyptian author Alaa Al-Aswany – "the dictator tries to test the limits of the engine, by doing everything except what he should do. He becomes dangerous. After that, he agrees to do anything they want him to do. Then he goes away".

Hosni Mubarak of Egypt appears to be on the cusp of stage four – the final departure.

Également il y a des démissions de masse de haut fonctionnaires écœurés de travailler pour le régime;

(traduit par Google Chrome)

The Engineer Osama Sheikh on Saturday evening his resignation as president of the Federation of Egyptian Radio and Television, in protest of it on the television coverage of the events of January 25 since the revolution broke out and even today.

Osama al-Sheikh has been appointed as chairman of Radio and Television Union, in November of 2009 by a presidential decree to replace Ahmed Anis, the sheikh is previously served as head of the specialized, after have achieved noticeable success in the establishment and management of a number of private channels, most notably the channel "Dream" and "Rai".

The head of Radio and Television Union political office is not only the ratification of the appointment by a presidential decree after decree would be issued a ministerial Petklifa job, and was both the chief of the Egyptian television and the President of the Egyptian Radio is by the appointment by presidential decree as well

Et puis un résumé des évènements des dernières heures, par le Guardian:

• Opposition groups, including the Muslim Brotherhood, have held talks with Vice President Omar Suleiman on what happens next in Egypt. They agreed to form a committee to come up with constitutional changes, according to reports. The Muslim Brotherhood said its key demand was that president Hosni Mubarak stands down. US secretary of state Hillary Clinton welcomed the Muslim Brotherhood's involvement in the talks.

• Thousands of protesters continue to occupy Tahrir Square where they held Muslim and Christian services to remember those who have been killed in the protests. Protesters say they are determined to stay until Mubarak goes, but there is a growing acceptance that this could take some time.

• Queues formed outside banks which opened briefly for the first time since time today since the protests began. "People are anxious to get paid and pull money out. It has been almost two weeks and life is at a standstill," one of those queuing said.

• Human Rights Watch expressed alarm about the arrest of activists and journalists. Video footage has emerged of a protester being shot in Alexandria amid varying estimates over the number of people killed in the demonstrations.

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Pas mal certain que des fissures commencent à paraître dans le mouvement de contestation en Égypte. Ils ont fait trop peu, trop tard.

Tout le monde pensaient que les protestataires allaient mettre le palais de Moubarak en feu vendredi dernier. Et maintenant on peut voir que le mouvement est vide de l'intérieur, peu importe le nombre de la foule. Les protestataires ne se battent plus, ils chialent à quel point leurs maitres sont injustes, sans vraiment comprendre de quels façons ils sont victimisés d'un point de vue économique et politique.

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Pas mal certain que des fissures commencent à paraître dans le mouvement de contestation en Égypte. Ils ont fait trop peu, trop tard.

Tout le monde pensaient que les protestataires allaient mettre le palais de Moubarak en feu vendredi dernier. Et maintenant on peut voir que le mouvement est vide de l'intérieur, peu importe le nombre de la foule. Les protestataires ne se battent plus, ils chialent à quel point leurs maitres sont injustes, sans vraiment comprendre de quels façons ils sont victimisés d'un point de vue économique et politique.

Bienvenue dans la postmodernité des « luttes ».

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Où est-ce qu'on peut s'assoir et relaxer?

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En Égypte, les seuls groupes organisés qu'il reste sont les Frères Musulmans qui ont fait élire 24 % de leurs candidats, en tant qu'indépendants, d'une part, et d'autre part, les militaires qui semblent disciplinés, unis et laïques.

Obama est confiant. Je paris donc sur l'armée. :happy:

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(modifié)

Les musulmans rendent la pareille aux chrétiens:

alg_egypt_koran.jpg

Une croix copte et un tas de Corans; pas de bain de sang.

On Friday, the holy day for Islam, Christian protesters in Tahrir Square joined hands to form a protective cordon around their Muslim countrymen so they could pray in safety.

Sunday, the Muslims returned the favor.

They surrounded Christians celebrating Mass in Cairo's central plaza, ground zero for the secular pro-democracy protests reverberating throughout the Middle East.

"In the name of Jesus and Muhammed, we unify our ranks," the Rev. Ihab al-Kharat told the crowd in his sermon.

"We will keep protesting until the fall of the tyranny," he said.

Some of the worshipers began to cry as the congregation sang, "Bless our country, listen to the cries of our hearts."

Afterward, the crowd of both Muslims and Christians chanted "one hand" - meaning "we are one" - and held up a Koran and a cross.

Egypt's 10 million to 20 million Coptic Christians are the largest and oldest Christian community in the Middle East.

They have been targeted by Islamic extremist groups and systematically barred from official positions by President Hosni Mubarak's regime.

A year ago, nine Copts were killed and 13 were wounded when Muslim militants opened fire on worshipers leaving the church where they had celebrated Mass on the Coptic Christmas Eve, Jan. 6.

A month ago, on New Year's Eve, 23 Copts were killed and 97 injured in the bombing of a church in Alexandria during a midnight prayer service.

That history made the fellowship in Cairo yesterday all the more moving.

"Christians pray and Muslims defend them. It is a touching scene," Coptic activist Michael Muneer told Al Jazeera TV.

The images also contradict those who suggest the protesters are militants bent on installing a fundamentalist government.

Though police forces quit protecting anything - including churches - when the anti-Mubarak protests began two weeks ago, not one church has been attacked.

Mass wasn't the only ceremony yesterday at Tahrir Square.

Dr. Ahmad Zaafan and his fiancée, Oula Abdul Hamid, who had been camping in the square for 10 days, got married in the shadow of a tank.

It was like having 300,000 guests, they said.

"We both received blessings and congratulations from all over the world," said Zaafan, a volunteer medic who treated wounded protesters.

With News Wire Services

[email protected]

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2011/02/07/2011-02-07_muslims_turn_out_in_mass.html

Modifié par Terry Fox

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(modifié)

Pas mal le temps d'être ici, right now...

Ajout: fini. Moubarak transfert une partie des pouvoirs exécutifs au vice-président, amende la constitution pour permettre entre autres de lever l'état d'urgence, mais reste en place jusqu'en septembre avec le motto par excellence du Moyen-Orient...

..."C'est pas l'Occident qui va nous dire quoi faire et quand !"

Classique.

Modifié par mononcle pourri

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Je crois que le Secrétariat d'État, nommément la bobonne Clinton, doit commencer à en avoir son truck. Je serais pas surpris que les militaires assurent l'intérim sous peu. :mellow:

Dans le fond, c'est ce qui va finir par arriver de toute façon. Sous Rumsfeld, ce serait déjà fait. Sous Clinton, ça aura juste traîné plus longtemps.

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Tu peux être certain qu'avant même d'avoir l'ombre du début de l'idée d'aller à la télé pour dire qu'il allait rester jusqu'en septembre contrairement à ce que tout le monde réclame, Moubarak est allé voir Tantawi et lui a demandé directement: "Fini la bullshit mec, t'es en arrière de moi ou non?"

Et s'il est finalement allé à la télé, la réponse a été "oui".

À partir de là, Moubarak qui mentionne directement dans son speach qu'il ne prendrait pas d'ordres de l'extérieur, c'est justement un message à Obama, Clinton and Co. de back off, j'ai l'autre en arrière de moi.

Le changement va se faire, mais ça va se faire tranquillos. Maintenant il va juste progressivement donner du lousse à chaque fois que quelqu'un va bitcher. Et en septembre il va se retirer et laisser les choses aller après avoir arrangé ça au maximum pour se sauver le cul.

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Si ça ce passe comme Moubarak le souhaite, ça va laisser un peu de temps aux partis de l'opposition, donc pas seulement les Frères musulmans, de s'organiser en vu du scrutin de septembre et ce, au plus grand plaisir des Occidentaux.

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Je ne peux pas voir comment un parti pouvant offrir une compétition raisonnable aux Frères Musulmans, une organisation sociale et politique multinationale qui offre déjà le filet social en Égypte, peut s'organiser d'ici la fin d'oût pour faire campagne.

Si le Secrétariat d'État voit la même impossibilité que moi, les militaires vont faire la bonne chose. Les forces armées Égyptiennes ont été financées et armées par les USA depuis que l'Égypte a signé la paix avec Israël.

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For Egypt, this is the miracle of Tahrir Square

There is no room for compromise. Either the entire Mubarak edifice falls, or the uprising is betrayed

One cannot but note the "miraculous" nature of the events in Egypt: something has happened that few predicted, violating the experts' opinions, as if the uprising was not simply the result of social causes but the intervention of a mysterious agency that we can call, in a Platonic way, the eternal idea of freedom, justice and dignity.

The uprising was universal: it was immediately possible for all of us around the world to identify with it, to recognise what it was about, without any need for cultural analysis of the features of Egyptian society. In contrast to Iran's Khomeini revolution (where leftists had to smuggle their message into the predominantly Islamist frame), here the frame is clearly that of a universal secular call for freedom and justice, so that the Muslim Brotherhood had to adopt the language of secular demands.

The most sublime moment occurred when Muslims and Coptic Christians engaged in common prayer on Cairo's Tahrir Square, chanting "We are one!" – providing the best answer to the sectarian religious violence. Those neocons who criticise multiculturalism on behalf of the universal values of freedom and democracy are now confronting their moment of truth: you want universal freedom and democracy? This is what people demand in Egypt, so why are the neocons uneasy? Is it because the protesters in Egypt mention freedom and dignity in the same breath as social and economic justice?

From the start, the violence of the protesters has been purely symbolic, an act of radical and collective civil disobedience. They suspended the authority of the state – it was not just an inner liberation, but a social act of breaking chains of servitude. The physical violence was done by the hired Mubarak thugs entering Tahrir Square on horses and camels and beating people; the most protesters did was defend themselves.

Although combative, the message of the protesters has not been one of killing. The demand was for Mubarak to go, and thus open up the space for freedom in Egypt, a freedom from which no one is excluded – the protesters' call to the army, and even the hated police, was not "Death to you!", but "We are brothers! Join us!". This feature clearly distinguishes an emancipatory demonstration from a rightwing populist one: although the right's mobilisation proclaims the organic unity of the people, it is a unity sustained by a call to annihilate the designated enemy (Jews, traitors).

So where are we now? When an authoritarian regime approaches the final crisis, its dissolution tends to follow two steps. Before its actual collapse, a rupture takes place: all of a sudden people know that the game is over, they are simply no longer afraid. It is not only that the regime loses its legitimacy; its exercise of power itself is perceived as an impotent panic reaction. We all know the classic scene from cartoons: the cat reaches a precipice but goes on walking, ignoring the fact that there is no ground under its feet; it starts to fall only when it looks down and notices the abyss. When it loses its authority, the regime is like a cat above the precipice: in order to fall, it only has to be reminded to look down …

In Shah of Shahs, a classic account of the Khomeini revolution, Ryszard Kapuscinski located the precise moment of this rupture: at a Tehran crossroads, a single demonstrator refused to budge when a policeman shouted at him to move, and the embarrassed policeman withdrew; within hours, all Tehran knew about this incident, and although street fights went on for weeks, everyone somehow knew the game was over.

Is something similar going on in Egypt? For a couple of days at the beginning, it looked like Mubarak was already in the situation of the proverbial cat. Then we saw a well-planned operation to kidnap the revolution. The obscenity of this was breathtaking: the new vice-president, Omar Suleiman, a former secret police chief responsible for mass tortures, presented himself as the "human face" of the regime, the person to oversee the transition to democracy.

Egypt's struggle of endurance is not a conflict of visions, it is the conflict between a vision of freedom and a blind clinging to power that uses all means possible – terror, lack of food, simple tiredness, bribery with raised salaries – to squash the will to freedom.

When President Obama welcomed the uprising as a legitimate expression of opinion that needs to be acknowledged by the government, the confusion was total: the crowds in Cairo and Alexandria did not want their demands to be acknowledged by the government, they denied the very legitimacy of the government. They didn't want the Mubarak regime as a partner in a dialogue, they wanted Mubarak to go. They didn't simply want a new government that would listen to their opinion, they wanted to reshape the entire state. They don't have an opinion, they are the truth of the situation in Egypt. Mubarak understands this much better than Obama: there is no room for compromise here, as there was none when the Communist regimes were challenged in the late 1980s. Either the entire Mubarak power edifice falls down, or the uprising is co-opted and betrayed.

And what about the fear that, after the fall of Mubarak, the new government will be hostile towards Israel? If the new government is genuinely the expression of a people that proudly enjoys its freedom, then there is nothing to fear: antisemitism can only grow in conditions of despair and oppression. (A CNN report from an Egyptian province showed how the government is spreading rumours there that the organisers of the protests and foreign journalists were sent by the Jews to weaken Egypt – so much for Mubarak as a friend of the Jews.)

One of the cruellest ironies of the current situation is the west's concern that the transition should proceed in a "lawful" way – as if Egypt had the rule of law until now. Are we already forgetting that, for many long years, Egypt was in a permanent state of emergency? Mubarak suspended the rule of law, keeping the entire country in a state of political immobility, stifling genuine political life. It makes sense that so many people on the streets of Cairo claim that they now feel alive for the first time in their lives. Whatever happens next, what is crucial is that this sense of "feeling alive" is not buried by cynical realpolitik.

(Source)

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